Testing, Training, Competing: Knowing the difference and getting the most from each - E.382

Testing. Training. Competing.
They sound interchangeable—but confusing them is one of the fastest ways to stall your progress.

In this episode of The Misfit Podcast, Drew and Paige break down:

• What testing, training, and competing actually are
• Why each one exists (and when it doesn’t)
• How ego, pacing, and athlete IQ derail results
• How to use data, RPE, and strategy to actually get better
• The dangerous gray area of “throwing down” too often

This conversation is part philosophy, part practical coaching clinic—covering everything from AMRAP math and baseline tests to why intensity without intention kills adaptation.

Whether you’re prepping for the Open, Quarterfinals, or just want to train smarter without burning out, this episode will change how you approach your workouts.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Opening, Agenda & Housekeeping
• 1:42 Training Camp, Programs, And Sponsors
• 5:04 Community Shoutouts And PR Momentum
• 7:02 Read, Listen, Watch: Picks And Takeaways
• 15:03 Defining Testing, Training, And Competing
• 19:03 Why We Compete And The Grey Area
• 23:13 Throwdowns: Risks, Rewards, Nervous System
• 26:29 How To Execute Testing: Variables & RPE
• 31:02 Athlete IQ Deep Dive: Math And Strategy
• 40:01 AMRAP Math, Splits, And Common Mistakes
• 44:18 Coaching, Ego, And Baseline Execution
• 48:15 Translating Athlete IQ Into Training
• 53:06 Interval Learning, Splits, And Notes
• 57:06 Technique First: Moving Well Under Intensity
• 1:02:05 Adaptation vs Best Score: What Matters
• 1:04:40 Competition Prep: Taper, Habits, And Fueling
• 1:10:06 Coach-Athlete Hive Mind And On-Floor Calls
• 1:15:05 Adrenaline, RPE, And Spreading Effort
• 1:19:12 The Elephant In The Room: Pacing

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:16

Good morning, Misfits. You are tuning in to another episode of the Misfit Podcast. On today's episode, we are swimming in the deep waters of testing, training, and competing. Normally I think people say training versus testing. I actually came up with sort of three categories and then a gray area fourth category. Um, and what we're going to try to do is define what these things are, why we would do them, and then how to execute on them. Maybe at the end of the episode, we are going to dig into the rise of the machines conversation. But as I started my notes there, I realized this could be like a four-hour episode. I have a lot of thoughts on it. And honestly, a lot of them are contradictory. So I just think it could be a fun conversation. So we'll see how long it takes us to talk about testing, training, and competing and see if we want to do the rise of the machines today or on another episode. And if we don't do it today and you guys want to hear it, just let us know. Before we get into that conversation, we're going to do a little housekeeping. We are going to do read, listen, watch. If you are new to the podcast and you don't want to listen to us yap, you can fuck no, just kidding. You can go to the chapters and click when we start talking about this. But we give the people what they want.

SPEAKER_04: 1:27

So you got me on that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30

Yeah, I got myself on it. I almost said it. All right, housekeeping. So if you listen to the podcasts and you follow our content on social media, YouTube, et cetera, and you want to support what we do, here are the ways to do so. Training camp. It is officially training camp month, 24 days from now or 23 days from now. We are heading to Boulder, Colorado to CrossFit Roots, a true kind of OG, I don't know, kind of CrossFit Mecha type place. A really special place in Boulder, Colorado. And we will be there January 30th through February 1st. You can get signed up through the link in bio on our Instagram. Um, this is a kind of open prep, quarterfinals prep style camp. And man, I just I don't know when we're our next camp's gonna be. It's always hard with schedules not being released for seasons and whatnot. And these weekends are pretty special. So if you have the funds and the time to make it happen, I highly, highly suggest doing so. The second way that you can support what we do is by following our programs. Same thing, link and bio on Instagram. Our individual programs are available through Fitter and Strivey. And if you are looking for our affiliate programming, you can go to teammisfit.com, click on sign up now, and you can get a two-week free trial at Sugarwad, StreamFit, or PushPress, or you can email me coach at misfitathletics.com and I will send you a PDF version of our program. The third way is to go to sharpenheaxco.com and buy some misfit gear. I am cooking up, I am cooking up a new design right now that I'm very excited about. And the teaser is SSE Racing Team. So I'll just kind of put that out into the world. But sharpenheaxco.com, buy some gear. And last but not least, this episode and every episode of the podcast is brought to you by GorillaMind. These are the best supplements in the game. Told you guys I wanted to try their intra workout product, and I am a huge fan, basically carbs, electrolytes, creatine in scientifically efficacious doses. I personally use it in my post-workout. I do 40 grams of protein through the um vanilla ice cream flavor that they've got for their whey protein. And then I do one scoop of the intra sort of mixed together, which I use the strawberry kiwi, and it's pretty good. I am uh a two-shaker person. So to get that and to get the flavor ratios right, I feel like one shaker is not enough. So I do 32 ounces of water and I split them into, split them into two. So if you go to grillamind.com forward slash misfit or just go to their website and use the code word misfit, you save, you support the podcast, and they make supplements that actually work.

SPEAKER_04: 4:09

I like the intro workout a lot. I have I think the cherry.

SPEAKER_02: 4:14

Okay, how is that?

SPEAKER_04: 4:15

It's it tastes good. It gives me like proper vibes, like the blue raspberry, like you get like that, like very flavorful but like salty. Yes. I did it post workout today. It's very good.

SPEAKER_03: 4:30

And you're an athlete too. Like, like you could probably do the the double scoop over the course of a training session, get the 80 grams of carbs, get the five grams of creatine, get the electrolytes that you need. For me, that would be a probably a testing day. I would have half of it while I was getting ready and training and getting myself kind of ready to go and ready to push. And then the other half, so, so one scoop each. But really cool product. Glad that they have it. Glad that I can basically recreate proper with two products instead of like 56. All right, we'll do some shout-outs here real quick, and then we will do read, listen, watch. The list is too damn long after a retest week, but I just have to give a shout out to the people that listen to the podcast, that participate in Telegram, that take the words that we put on paper and turn them into actual results. Because we do everything that we can and, you know, we bring humility and open-mindedness and all of our history to programming. But if you guys don't execute on it, it isn't anything, right? It doesn't, it doesn't exist. Like it's the tree falling in the woods when no one's there, sort of a situation. So the amount of PRs that we saw last week, and not just PRs, but like beginner gains PRs from decade-long athletes is just so motivating for us as coaches and programmers. So huge shout-out and hat tip to the crew. And if you're looking for a program to follow, first and foremost, you actually have to execute and work your ass off to make it happen. But I think I think we get a pretty good proof of concept from the group of people that we know are actually executing.

SPEAKER_04: 6:08

Yeah. I mean, you and I are pretty like-minded. Like we didn't have the same, we didn't share our shout-outs before getting on here. And right away, I'm like everybody communicating in Telegram and like kind of upping that conversation and not being afraid to, you know, throw questions out there and take feedback, you know, actively and being like kind of ahead of the game right now is is really exciting to see. And, you know, there's a small group of people that are consistently posting in Telegram. And I I think they're just kind of the, you know, they're making it feel like a supportive, safe place to to post. And, you know, posting scores can be, you gotta be a little vulnerable to be able to do it. So for sure. It's definitely not, you know, it's not always that fun. You have to let your ego aside. And, you know, having that community kind of already set the tone before people really started getting active in there has been really fun to see.

SPEAKER_03: 7:01

Hell yeah. All right. Read, listen, watch. What you got for us?

SPEAKER_04: 7:05

Okay. Um I'll say my listen first because it's not really something I could share for you guys to listen to. I know I talked about, I think, two or three weeks ago and we started working with a consulting business. So we get people to click on our social media ads.

SPEAKER_03: 7:21

And by we, you don't mean us, you mean your job at the gym.

SPEAKER_04: 7:25

Yeah. So here at Great White, um, basically, like we're just kind of in like a, I guess, constructive criticism, like getting feedback in on how our calls are going and how we're doing. So a lot of my listening is kind of directed towards that. I I haven't really been doing anything new outside of that. Like that is just the big kind of focal point for me right now, besides balancing that and what we're doing here with Misfit. So yeah, nothing too crazy there. But uh, my watch is Little Disasters on Paramount Plus.

SPEAKER_03: 7:55

Little Disasters. I don't think I've heard of it.

SPEAKER_04: 7:57

Yeah, so it has to do, I'm not done with it yet. My friend Aaron introduced me to it. We started watching it. It has to do with um basically there's a group of friends, but one family in particular that brings their child to the hospital because she is crying pretty like aggressively at like one night, you know, something traumatic happened that caused uh a skull fracture and the mom is like hiding it. And there's a lot of little nuances to it. So, but it's been pretty good. I don't want to give away too much. But if you want to go watch something, you know, it has a couple twists and turns.

SPEAKER_05: 8:31

Nice.

SPEAKER_04: 8:32

Um, and then my read is actually from a YouTube video. I just wanted to put the quote out there. I usually sometimes I'll like I'll go on YouTube and kind of find random like clips and things to listen to while I'm in a zone two session. So sometimes it just makes the the time go by a little bit better. But there was a clip in this one YouTube video. It says, the world belongs to those who can continue to work without seeing the result of their work, continue to do without seeing the result of their doing. And it's really the person who can do that for the longest period of time. And that's usually because they're still getting leading indicators. And it's just that it's amounting to a much bigger mountain. So if you want to do the big shit, it takes a way longer period of time because the easy shit, the little hills, everyone conquers really easily. I'm on time, I say please and thank you. It's like, so what? If you want to do something that most people can't do, extend the time horizon on the things that most people can't weather. There's so much opportunity on the other side of being willing to persist for an extended period of time on the right path without getting positive reinforcement from your environment. I really like that. It came from this YouTube video that kind of talks about like, I don't really know how to say it. It's like, you know, essentially explaining why big goals can feel really lonely because most people kind of quit before that mountain really shows itself. And just kind of like that uncertainty and that that middle ground that, you know, you're growing through it and sometimes that lack of visible results, like it's often when people want to quit. And just I I just can resonate with it a lot right now, especially with a lot of stuff that you know, all the changes I've been making. Um, and really with CrossFit too, you know, we you can look at Matt Fraser, that guy will put himself in a dungeon and hide away and come out the champion, right? Like, yeah, it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03: 10:22

He can see the he definitely could see the forest through the trees from like very early on. And we will not stop having conversations like this and quotes like this, because what you feed your mind on a regular basis is going to turn into the real things that happen in your life. And this is top of mind for me because the misfit mind that'll get posted on Friday is very much about this. And on top of that, what what is better than a little zone two and ruminate? When you 22 minutes of a zone two disappears because you're like thinking through something or working through something, or just have like a thread that you're stuck on. Oh my goodness, it's the best. And all of my zone two right now is on the Echo bike. And it's you need it. There's no momentum, right? Right. You know what I mean? You get on a spin bike and your legs keep just it just like it's just back and forth and trying to find those things that, you know, oof, I never thought I never thought I'd make to this point in the session and just 11 minutes just gone. So I love having those things there. My read, listen, watch is like basic bitch edition for me. None of these will surprise a single person that knows me, but they are the most top of mind and very much what I'm reading, listening, watching. So Read is the most influential book of my life, hands down, by a factor of, I don't know, 10 man's search for meaning. It is a very challenging read because it is essentially a form of psychotherapy that the theoretical, kind of the hypothesis for came from someone being in concentration camp. So that part of the book, man, it's a lot. It's a lot. But it is, it's just the it's the kind of thing. It was definitely, it met me at the like, it was like a divine thing. It met me at the perfect time in life. And I try, I'm usually reminded to look back through it around the new year. And it means something different to me every time I read it, which is also really cool. So I definitely recommend it for people, but you gotta be ready to, you know, read about, you know, a husband and wife in a in a concentration camp. So that part of it, again, is pretty brutal, but the perspective on it is yes, very heavy. The listen is I don't know how you can, and and this is definitely the for my ADD folks out there, this is the ADD of me, but I don't know how you can be blown away by one of your favorite albums, but I can be very regularly. The quarterfinals prep looping album while I'm writing it is Paul's Boutique by the Beastie Boys, and it's so good. It is so good. And it was one of those records where the first one that everybody knows really well with the fight for your right to party and all of those songs, that record was a joke. Like that persona that they put out there was like making fun of that persona. And then it's kind of funny because if you, you know, read their book or whatever, they kind of turn into it by accident. But then they make this like experimental record, which every time an artist does the thing where they like divert completely from what they normally do, the fans get pissed. So everybody hated it, and now it's considered one of the greatest albums ever made. And I agree. It is so good. So if you are into hip hop at all, put Paul's boutique back on. And I don't like put it on in a situation where you can either turn it up very loud or have headphones on. I I can't sit with someone and show them something like Paul's boutique if they tell me to turn it down because they don't understand. Oral play it, I can't. Totally not talking about my wife right now. Okay. And last but not least, I don't know if I've talked about this one before, and I actually think it's leaving Netflix, but I just re-watched Mr. Robot. Gotta be a nerd, gotta be in the some of the kind of like the large corporations run the world conspiracy theory kind of stuff, but it is so good. And part of me wants to tell people to like stick with it if it's too weird at the beginning, but like I love the beginning. So maybe so, so maybe the person just won't like it, but oh my goodness, love mystery.

SPEAKER_04: 14:27

I think I've made it through three episodes.

SPEAKER_03: 14:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_04: 14:29

So but I'm kind of that person. I'll I'll try to stick it out.

SPEAKER_03: 14:33

So nah, I can't I can't explain it because then that would give it away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 14:38

The main reason the main reason I watched is because that guy plays Freddie Mercury in The Queen. Rami Yeah, Bohemia. Yeah, so good. Yeah. So I was like, he's gotta have a good show.

SPEAKER_03: 14:50

He's got some uh mental health issues, and let's say there might be more than one version of him, and he's real good at playing each version, which is kind of crazy. So read, listen, watch. All right, testing, training, and competing.

SPEAKER_04: 15:03

Did you act did you say what your read was? What what's the book? Did I miss it?

SPEAKER_03: 15:07

Man search for meaning.

SPEAKER_04: 15:08

Okay. I yeah completely did not hear that. Got it.

SPEAKER_03: 15:11

Yeah, man's search for meaning, that's the one with the concentration camp.

SPEAKER_04: 15:14

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03: 15:15

Yeah, all right. So the first thing that I think we need to do is to define what these things are and why someone would be doing them. And I want to I want you to go first, but I will give you the like I won't bury the lead. I think testing and competing are two different things. Yeah. So you do your phase test, your wattage test, you retest something to see where you're at. I am competing to try and beat this person to place this place on the leaderboard. I think those are two different things and very much two different things for the sake of the conversation today. So what is testing page and why would you do it?

SPEAKER_04: 15:56

I mean, testing is like, you know, you're getting exposure to a specific stimulus and it's it's designed to measure, it's designed to measure something specific, right?

SPEAKER_02: 16:06

So gives us data, right?

SPEAKER_04: 16:08

Yeah. We're looking for, you know, in training, we did week one, test one, deadlift wall walks. Like we're we're hitting a specific stimulus and getting exposure to something very specific, and we can establish a baseline on that. So basically with testing, we're establishing a baseline, we're tracking adaptation as we go. And then, you know, we can validate whether the training is working, if we're on the right path, we can reveal our strengths, where we have some holes, things like that. That's how I would say.

SPEAKER_03: 16:42

And we're sort of lumping testing and retesting in together here. And the why I think lives within that world because it's not really a test in the sense that we are defining it today without the retest for and that's more true or less true depending on how much context you have. So if you go to do your, this I have a perfect example. If you go to do your 40-minute C2 bike tests, like most people unhatch it, we are skipping retests to go into quarterfinals prep, but you have so much context on that machine. You have your first gear, second gear, third gear. Maybe you've already done this test, maybe you've done the 20-minute version, the 60-minute version, you know your splits from uh torta misfit. There's a lot of different places where you would have that context from. But the the testing element here is like the why is very much why wouldn't we just train all of the time? And not knowing where you're at and not flipping the switch, if you're, especially if you're involved with the sport, from how do I get better to how good am I is, I think, kind of a recipe for spinning your wheels a little bit. And I think you actually often get into that thing of, well, this hurts a little bit, so it must be doing what it's supposed to do. We need those moments where we go check in on ourselves and see what we're capable of, and then we can kind of readjust what we think we can pull off within training. Training. What is training and why do we do it? Uh I mean, training is what's happening five-ish days a week, 40 some weeks out of the year, and we do it to make incremental progress over a period of time. So we have the GPP effect of large periods of time where we're going short, medium, and long, and we are working on skills and strength and strength accessories, and all of that sort of comes back together. And then when we whittle that down into a phase or a week or a two or three, you know, week chunk of time, that's when we can take a look at things that are maybe a little bit more micro, a little bit more specific, right? Like chest to bar progression. I did a, you know, I did 10 sets of seven last week and they put felt pretty smooth. And this week I did nine sets of 12 based on that or whatever it is. And I think that one's probably the most straightforward for people, defining what it is and why we do it, how to execute on it, I think is what's probably missed a little bit more. So we're obviously gonna get into that. And then competing, competing is something's on the line. And I have a gray area next that's a little bit more like Johnny and Billy, lock eyes and class or before a workout. That's a form of competing. That's not what I'm talking about. We'll get there. Competing is the open quarterfinals, semifinals, your local throwdown, you know, major competitions, minor competitions. Doesn't matter what it is. We do it. Man, why don't you, why don't you tell me why, why do we compete?

SPEAKER_04: 19:37

I mean, you want to express your fitness, right? You put in all this work over the course of a year, two years, five years. It's like, this is your time to express all of that hard work. And um, you get to see how you do under pressure. How do you execute? How do you manage your adrenaline? How do you manage the stress around it? How do you manage your emotional? Emotions and you get to see where you stack up. There's, I mean, a lot of people have their why, but you know, these are kind of those foundational reasons that people want to compete. You wanna, you wanna test yourself against the best.

SPEAKER_03: 20:12

It's like the reason I paused is because I think there's the definition that you gave. And then for me, it's like it's in my soul. Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:21

Is that true?

SPEAKER_03: 20:22

I was a testing and competing kind of athlete and not so great on the training side. And I didn't really learn the how and the what and the why of all of this until I got involved mostly in the in the CrossFit community, a little bit of training kind of before that. But there's just uh there's an itch, I think, that some people have. And what happens when you compete and have the ability to express what you're capable of, I think can reset the stage for you and kind of keep you in it. Because, you know, the gap between the gap between what I was capable of doing on a random day and then what I was able to do with like in a pressure scenario was very large. And I think that if I had been a little bit more recreational and just did it for kind of the love of the game and and didn't compete very often, that I either would have had to figure out how to do that or I would have just stopped. So it kept me that like rush kept me coming back. And I'm not saying that that's necessarily a good thing, but there's there's something to the like romantic side of it, I think, when it comes to competing, especially if you get the opportunity to compete at a stage again that brings the most out of you.

SPEAKER_04: 21:38

Yeah. I I feel like I I kind of get a blend of both. Like I am definitely one of those athletes that shows up on competition day. At least, you know, that's notoriously how I've been. I I could probably say a little different this past year, of course, but like there's just something that like there's no cooler feeling than like just being able to like step up to the plate, you know? It's like just getting to experience all of those feelings. I don't know what it is. It's just like you just love it. It's hard to walk away. I can tell you that. It's very hard.

SPEAKER_03: 22:11

And then there's the gray area here. And and this is this is an important one. So this is this is what I would refer to as throwing down. So again, this can be you have a training partner and there are perils related to doing every workout the same, uh, not just the same workout, but trying to execute it in the same way as a training partner in something I don't recommend to the masses unless you're uh, you know, kind of an affiliate athlete and you're doing, you know, kind of going hard three or four times a week. I think that's a really cool place to do that. But throwing down would be, you know, like for you and McKenna, you trained in the same room at the same time often, but it was somewhat rare that it would be like you guys have the same piece and the same focus, and then you get to kind of do that thing. You get to sort of stoke that competitive fire a little bit.

SPEAKER_04: 22:58

And it's painful.

SPEAKER_03: 22:59

I think about it, yeah. Yep. I think about it a lot as some of our like weekend things. Or if an athlete comes to visit. That's one area of throwing down that I see where the athlete could be alone and competing with a version of themselves that they're trying to overcome or don't want to be, right? So, like there's been this narrative that I've had for myself for this super long period of time, and I'm gonna go visit coach and I'm gonna show him what I'm made of, and I'm like fighting that thing. And there's a huge risk and reward related to this world of throwing down. The reward is stimulus is beautiful. You also, if you have any athlete IQ, you probably have to work on. Like if you're trying to throw down and you don't strategize very well unless the counterpart is also doing the same thing, you're just gonna get dusted and that's not gonna go very well. But then the risk is what is happening to your nervous system over an extended period of time, right? Are we seeing this like up and down, huge up and down HRV, depending on how often you're doing it and how hard you're going? And again, one of the reasons why these things are not like I have, I don't tell stories about other athletes without permission, but I have a book's worth of especially dudes. Oh my god, dudes, you guys, you guys gotta chill out. Like losing their minds over a random workout on a random day. Like there were people who were competing at like the highest levels in the sport, top 20 games athletes who considered retiring because they could never win on the on the workout on the day, like on the leaderboard. So again, that can show you some of the risk there and and what happens potentially to someone's self-worth that's tied into doing those things.

SPEAKER_04: 24:53

Very true. I yeah, man, I think back to some of those group chats we had that we would share training scores and just the the chatter that would happen, the chirping and gosh.

SPEAKER_03: 25:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 25:06

I don't know if I survived. Honestly, I'm not that athlete.

SPEAKER_03: 25:10

Yeah, yeah, seriously. Well, I mean, the amount of times you would see so-and-so left the group, that was that those were those were regular occurrences, and then there'd be like side groups of like the like aggro crew together, and then the like, hey, let's just be nice to each other crew together. And honestly, a lot of times that was just guys and girls. We had some girls that were guys, and we had some guys that were girls, but like so, and then for me, we had the year where it was like five people in the same gym going to regionals and all, you know, swimming around that top 10 regionals area. And oh my god, those running up the stairs to tell me so-and-so cheated on their wall balls. The amount of times that happened was terrifying. All right. So now really important to get into execution. And we're gonna start with testing because testing oftentimes is where we are starting. We are setting the baseline that you referenced, then we're getting to work, then we're really testing at the end. And variables and expectations, I think, is a really good place to start because we gotta know how you're sleeping. We gotta know if you're weighing and measuring your food and knowing that, like, yeah, I'm I'm looking shredded. I'm super low fat right now, and my hormones are trash, or I'm low carb and I'm shredded and I have no energy and you know, can't stay it mentally, and that's fucking with my sleep. So, what is happening on the outside? What are you doing for warm-up and cooldown and mobility work? Um, and what is the surrounding volume? So if you follow Mistfit Athletics, the instructions in test week are very much related to this is so you can set baselines and have realistic numbers to try and improve on. And if you're always adding extra pieces, you're always adding extra lifts, you're spending too much time in the gym under intensity instead of again warming up, cooling down, doing your mobility, all of that stuff, then your scores are gonna change. And people have these expectations of what they want. And sometimes they're just unrealistic because they're unrealistic. They are comparing scores to somebody else and just thinking that, okay, well, they got that score, so it's possible to get that score. I don't have my 10,000 hours, they do. I should get that score anyways. There, there's there's a problem within that. But then, like, again, not gonna call anybody out, but there are definitely people in Telegram that are like, that weight was too light. I added more. And it's like, there is, if you want to DM me and say, what, why is this easy? Like, what are we doing right now? I will tell you the exact reason why. You know, progressive overload is a thing. We are setting baselines again to grow on, but the things surrounding the variables surrounding everything outside of the test should line up really well with what your expectations are.

SPEAKER_04: 27:54

Yeah, I like to like all my remote athletes, like they're all in it because they want to, you know, compete throughout the season. So it's like, well, I want you guys to really be able to bring intensity to one training piece right now. Like, again, we're getting ready for the open, quarters finals prep will be a, you know, slightly different, but it's like, show me how you prepare for that one piece. And, you know, then it's like we we move on from there. But like warm up, cool down, like all those little details. Again, this is just that time to dial it in. And, you know, when you come out the other side, typically with the retest, it's like, you know, look at phase two. Everybody smashed phase two, you know, in terms of progress. So like again, I can't emphasize enough less is more when you learn to bring intensity in the right way into the right pieces.

SPEAKER_03: 28:40

And that's a skill. And that's the one thing that can be so frustrating is like, and it's usually obvious the people who have a similar, like a certain sentiment about what's happening within a training day that reach out to me and then say, I didn't do better on my retest. Like, I don't want to say I could have predicted that, but like I kind of could have. And again, the way that we do all of these things is going to have a major impact on the actual end result. It's not just like, you know, we can't put the book under our pillow and know the answers, right? Like we have to, we have to live it. We have to, you know, we're gonna talk about, you know, using the whole like, this is my hypothesis, I'm gonna test it and then see what happens afterwards. Athlete IQ. So we will do an athlete IQ exercise right now related to the wall walk deadlift test. Um and for those that are not following the program, we have one, three, six, nine, fifteen, twenty-one wall walk deadlift. Um, the weights change from program to program. I believe the pro version is 315 and the hatchet version is 275, and the master's version is 245 in terms of the men's weight on the barbell. And I want to use this as an opportunity to tell you guys how we would talk through. So Paige is competing and we get a workout announced, and it's like, let's talk about how many reps in total we have here, how many breaks we're thinking, and kind of do the math on it. And the goal isn't always to set an expectation on the time, but it's to understand what the workout is. Um, so the very first thing that we would do here is define total reps. So we have 55 of each. That is really important there. If you're doing an AMRAP, you need to do this in reverse. You need to figure out how long a round would take and then figure out what the reps are. And we'll get to that at the end. That's super important. I am a how long does a rep take guy? And Hunter is a reps per minute guy. I find reps per minute to be a little bit easier to communicate to another person. I'm definitely like a math brain person. So when I start down the rabbit hole of like, well, these actually take this long, and then you multiply it by this, and time math can be tough, right? So like I use spreadsheets for this, and it's a huge pain. Google Sheets and minutes and seconds don't really jive all that well. So it's like 82 seconds is what? So basically, what you need to do is get an idea of how long the movements take with no breaks, no transitions, no rest, et cetera. This is where this starts to get a little bit tricky with this workout. But again, we're doing examples and you guys are at home, you're making omelets, we're breaking eggs, are making an educated guess, and then you have data afterwards to back it up. So most of the people that are listening to this podcast can do roughly 10 wall walks in a minute, somewhere in that range. Colton Mertens does 20 wall walks in a minute.

unknown: 31:45

Stupid.

SPEAKER_03: 31:46

Is yeah. But we find that that elite level four seconds a rep, and then a lot of people end up averaging out to about six seconds per rep, somewhere in that range. So we got five and a half minutes of steady wall walks in this workout. So I give you a little bit of information on what style of workout this is. That should like while you're doing this exercise, the reason we go in this order is because that should mean something to you. Five and a half minutes of wall walks. And we all know what happens on those wall walks, especially if it's sweaty and you gotta like switch spots because your oil slick is in the wrong area and you start to slide down. Um, but five and a half minutes there, 55 deadlifts. Deadlifts are like a second to two seconds. Um, so we'll call that a second and a half, and that is a minute 22. Um, so there's only six, there's only about seven minutes of work in this whole workout. Um, so again, that should that should kind of tell you guys something. Is this workout going to take seven minutes? No, no, it's not. Next would be transitions and breaks. So, how many times do we have to transition? Like everyone has to transition in the workout, and then the breaks would be a little bit more personalized. With this one right here, um, we have six rounds of a couplet. So that would insinuate 12 transitions, but you don't transition into the first movement, you don't transition out of the last movement. So that's 10. We will use some nice round math here, five seconds per transition. I know you guys are thinking you're not taking five seconds. Some of you are taking 19 seconds. So I'll just put that out there. So that's an extra 50 seconds right there. I calculated for a pretty good strategy for like a high-level quarterfinals athlete to, you know, sort of bubble semifinals athlete, 22 breaks. And that has to do with like starting to think about the wall walks and sets of three, and then starting to chunk up the deadlifts a little bit. If those are five second transit transitions as well, that's a minute 50. So we have a nine and a half minute workout here with like that's some pretty damn good execution on a workout like this. And again, that starts to give you like like I have with transitions and breaks, I have 32. I have 32 of those built into that. And it's still only nine and a half minutes. But if you were thinking about this page, this was like 11 minutes for you, roughly. Yeah. And you did some extra reps.

SPEAKER_04: 34:10

Yeah, on accident.

SPEAKER_03: 34:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 34:11

Good thing I was told.

SPEAKER_03: 34:13

So at a at a competition, a sub 10 wouldn't be insane.

SPEAKER_04: 34:18

Correct. I'd be yeah, I'd be shooting for that. I was just about to look at what my double under one was from 2021. I was just curious. I should have looked earlier.

SPEAKER_03: 34:28

Yep. Some of those were fast.

SPEAKER_04: 34:30

Yeah. I really did like that workout too. Anyway.

SPEAKER_03: 34:33

Um so again, we're defining our total reps. We're either doing reps per second or reps per minute. We're adding in our transitions and breaks. We're doing a little bit of math. Again, with the amount like the power that you hold in your hand at all times now, like you can get a little bit of help real fast on this stuff. But I do recommend trying to do it yourself until it reaches the point where the math is too annoying so that you can actually just understand a little bit more. And again, you are figuring out where you fit into this whole world. And for me, after working with an athlete for a while, it's usually a little bit easier to just like I don't even do the transitions and breaks. I'm like, this is gonna take this chunk of the workout's taking it, gonna take about this long. This part's gonna take about this long, that sort of thing. Now, one that happens all of the time that is a big issue is amrap math. So let's say we used the 20-minute amrap from the open with the deadlift double under row. What's important there, especially at like an intermediate level of fitness and skill, is that you do the math on how many deadlifts and double unders you're gonna be doing. Because we're gonna ask you, we do the open announcement happens, we do a podcast, we talk you guys through it, and we basically say row as slow as you need to to then go crush the other two movements and get right back on the rower. And a lot of people just need to realize that they have to do hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of double unders. And, you know, sometimes CrossFit's asking for for, you know, 90 to 100 plus deadlifts. And that just takes its toll on a certain level of athlete that isn't getting the level of exposure there. So doing that math, doing out a round and just being like, I think a round's gonna take me, you know, two minutes. Oh my goodness, that's 10 rounds. How much work is there in that? And it's like you have to think back on have I done a workout like that? Am I, do I know how I can sort of handle that? That sort of thing. So am wrap math is really important. Athletes at the highest level will hit them with a, you know, 20 to 30 minute amrap and they don't do the math. And like they had the right strategy for a 14-minute amrap. And then they're like, I didn't realize that if I stayed at that pace, I would do 79 muscle ups. And I'm probably not gonna do 79 muscle ups. Anything to add on the athlete IQ side, Paige?

SPEAKER_04: 36:47

I think with for testing. Yeah, I think I think you've covered a big part of it. I think I think people underestimate how powerful this type of exercise is. It takes some time to do, it takes practice. Like I feel very lucky when I go to a competition and Drew sends me a screenshot of the Excel sheet so I can just see it, but you know, I'm I'm doing it in like in my training. I I you have to take the time to do something like this to really start to learn about yourself. If you want to find, you know, a 20-minute AMRAP, you find that at the 14-minute mark is where you always fall off. Okay, so there is a strategy thing in there that needs to change. So it's just a really powerful exercise to try if you haven't done it. And if you are doing it, keep doing it.

SPEAKER_03: 37:34

All right, coaching. So when we are testing, and this bleeds much stronger in the competition realm, but definitely in testing, the ego presents itself more often in testing than it would training. And having someone to talk through what does it feel like to, you know, to put that many deadlifts together with that many wall walks, you know, are we going to run into low back issues? You know, maybe if it was handstand push-up overhead squat was one of the classic ones back in the day where people said it felt like someone was hitting their low back with a baseball bat. But just having that like sanity check on your idea. And then if you are in the kind of situation where you actually can have someone there with you, or you're just playing the game of like ego's the devil on one shoulder, coach is the angel on the other shoulder, like, I feel pretty good nine seconds into this workout. Let me just creep up to 600 watts on the Echo Bike and see if I can hold that for the next 20 minutes. So the coaching or using the Telegram group or using your peer group and just understanding really what the workout is and how you're gonna how you're going to attack it is incredibly important. And the better, more developed your athlete IQ is, the less you need this for setting a baseline type test because you're going in, you're getting your numbers, you're probably at a, you know, a little bit of a lower RPE ceiling kind of a thing. And you just want to see where you're at. So then you can have good data and go work on things. But really, just it's one thing I'm struggling with right now is not just jumping into all the notes that I have in my brain for training. So again, we're setting that baseline, and it's really important to look at notes to again rely on other people and get into that. Where would you say you take RPE in setting a baseline test versus a retest versus an in-person competition?

SPEAKER_04: 39:35

I feel like I haven't done the test retest in a while, just with the way the season has kind of flowed for me. But I was actually just thinking about this of like, okay, especially for those that have kind of been misfits for a while, we do these phases. We you guys have time off at some point within the year, right? We're not trading every single year. And you, you know, you have the ebbs and flows. So when I think McKenna and I have this conversation too of like it's really hard. People get really, really worked up when it comes to the test, right? The test week. It's like you feel that anxiety kind of creep up a little bit more. But it's like you are getting a baseline. And for some, it's like, well, I'm not where, like, I haven't been doing X on the rower. Like my aerobic is not there, my anaerobic field is not there, my paces are gonna be lower. Yes, maybe, but also like you're not starting from scratch again. Like you're starting at another, like you're starting at a baseline that's a little bit higher than what it was, say two years ago. Right. So it's like it's okay if you know your scores in test week aren't perfect or if your numbers are lower than where you think they should be. It's like I've had to start over with CrossFit so many times, but my baseline has always raised up a little bit more. Like it's never way down here. So just like, I don't know. Like I'd say for me, there's probably a little bit more pressure when it comes to the retest week. And then obviously competition the highest. Um but like I try to really remind myself personally to like have grace through test week. Like I'm still gonna give my best effort, but I have to accept that my best effort is enough. So, you know, I've had athletes who, you know, have had to take time off from injury. And it's like, your numbers aren't gonna be where you want them to be, but like we're gonna set a baseline again. And still, that baseline is gonna be higher than you think it is because you have built such a base under you.

SPEAKER_05: 41:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 41:34

Yeah, that great question because I was just thinking about that in my head. So yeah, I that's that's kind of where I stand with that.

SPEAKER_03: 41:41

What's funny about it is we're using RPE and perceived is a very important word in there because a lot of people think that they live in that nine to ten range of maybe rate of exertion, but not rate of perceived exertion. And perception changes within, we talked about all the elements of like how you're actually feeling, but it also changes within the environment itself. So, like I want an athlete to be trending up into that eight to nine range when they're setting a baseline. But what is so incredibly important in developing your athlete IQ is knowing that most workouts are supposed to go similar start to finish and just get harder as you go. So many people go way faster at the beginning and then slow down. So when we are testing, especially when we're setting a baseline, I almost always want someone to start slower than they want to.

SPEAKER_05: 42:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 42:48

And the funny thing is that it often leads to somebody just pacing well and doing well. But RPE and these things, like it's it's such a challenging topic and such a fascinating topic to me because in the wrong hands, telling someone to back off a little bit, like they back way off.

SPEAKER_05: 43:06

Right. Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 43:06

And then it's like, well, there was no, there's almost no point to what you just did. It was like a long, like, like that like zone three, like just no one knows why, why, what are we doing here? Why are we, you know, sort of in this place? So it's always fascinating to me to work with athletes on an individual level and figure out what the right explanation is of that. Because you can pace something well and like it listen, if you're setting a baseline and you see the light at the end of the tunnel and you want to stomp the gas pedal and you know it's not gonna screw up your score, I love that, right? But I will tell you right now that, you know, a 154 becomes a 153 or a 152 in a retest and like a 150 or a 149 in competition. And they all feel like you are taking yourself to that place. Um, and you kind of are for the environment. Um, but understanding the differences there, I think is really important. And you and I had a moment this year at WFP2 where we knew I knew beforehand that you were gonna need to go harder, but I wanted you to see it first. And you you said something before I did. You were like, if I don't go harder on these machines, I will not keep up with these girls. It won't happen. So, like I think I know what my pace needs to be, but it's like I might as well try to go that fast because otherwise I'm gonna come in 15th to 20th on this workout and that's not where I need to be. Um and those moments are so important, right? Like you can get the stimulus and the benefit in testing and training from the paces you were going at. But when you're at that place where it's I kind of have to go there, or else it's cool to see how athletes can level up and find out a little bit more about themselves.

SPEAKER_04: 44:59

Yeah. You, you know, it's you rise up to, you know, that level of competition that's there, right? So in in training, that's that's really hard to do, especially if you're training by yourself. But sometimes you gotta just fuck around and find out.

SPEAKER_03: 45:13

It's true. It is very true. Okay, so if you're looking, so we're moving on to how to execute in training. And I'm wondering when you look at the list of bullet points for testing, which ones feel the most relevant for training, which don't. And then we'll talk about how athletes need to actually personalize training to get better at it.

SPEAKER_04: 45:33

I mean definitely the athlete IQ stuff really comes into play here. Your warm-ups, cooldowns, you know, the the things you can control essentially. Um but athlete IQ is definitely the biggest one for me that I'm like and how to use it in training is different.

SPEAKER_03: 45:50

So I I think this this part will be fun and hopefully a little enlightening for people. So when you will use Misfit Athletics as the example, but hopefully, no matter what program you follow, you know what the intention of the workout is through coaches' notes, you know, stimulus definitions, etc. When you do the athlete IQ exercise for a training piece, you're getting a general idea of what a good strategy would be within a workout. And then we are gonna turn certain knobs up and down to create what will help move the needle for you specifically. So we have that athlete IQ exercise, and we have defined that we're gonna try to do this many burpees in a minute, and we're gonna hold this pace on the machine, and we're gonna break the barbell up into these sets or the gymnastics up into these sets, and that would give you the best score. That is our baseline, and again, an exercise that should be done as often as you have time to actually do it. But then you need to know within the stimulus and within your own strengths and weaknesses, which thing that you need to work on. I've found out the hard way that if you say to someone, we're gonna go hard on the skier today in an 18-minute AMRAP, they might take that so literally, as in like an eighth gear to P3 kind of speed. And it's like, okay, so if we were gonna hold 900 cals per hour and we were gonna go unbroken on the other movements, we are going to go a thousand cals per hour or 1100 cals per hour, and we're gonna take one to two strategic breaks elsewhere so that we can arrive back around at that thing to overreach a little bit each time, but stay within the confines of the time domain that would that that we would be looking for. If you're always gaming workouts, you're not gonna find the places to improve. There's part of athlete IQ is fucking up and going too fast and going too slow and going unbroken in a place that you should. Or like one of my favorite examples of the like reverse situation of that is Helen. If you don't run absurdly hard in round one of Helen, you get done and you're like, and I know like 21 and 12 with the kettlebell swings and the pull-ups isn't what it used to be, but like that's kind of part of it. And I think one of the reasons why it's fun to see that at like a games level, because it's like, well, if everyone's gonna have the same rep speed indoors.

SPEAKER_04: 48:26

What matters? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 48:28

Exactly. And and for whatever reason, based on the energy system, you know, based on being fresh and almost being able to breathe your way through and have a break, you really got to kind of stomp the gas pedal. So those mistakes are important as well. Backing off and leaving too much on the table and seeing where that's at. But if we're always gaming the workout and trying to get the absolute best score that we can, you're gonna leave a ton on the table with overreaching and specific segments of a workout and a ton on the table with screwing up so that you can adjust your athlete IQ.

SPEAKER_04: 49:00

Yeah. I um I don't know. I don't have much to add to that. This kind of hit the nail on the head.

SPEAKER_03: 49:05

So again, you are given the style of workout at Misfit Athletics. If it's a cardio piece, we hope to God that it's either short enough that you can just be smooth and unbroken with fast transitions, or that we've given you a movement that is individually paced. Wall balls are not individually paced, chest bar pull-ups are not individually paced, rowing, burpees, box jumps, things of that nature, you bring the pace too. You need to know how fast you can go on that machine or how slow you need to go to have a quick transition, go unbroken on the movement, and unbroken has different definitions. If it's drop and reset singles on a power clean because you don't get points for the negative, that's not a big deal. But that's what that workout is: a gas stimulus workout. We want you to be overreaching a little bit. And that is one of the ones where I'm gonna try to define the weakness on the athlete. And I'm gonna tell them want your chest to bar pull-ups to be unbroken. And I know that you can do it. And I know that it's gonna make your heart go through the roof. And that's just what we're doing today, that sort of thing. So again, we're we're finding the place where we can overreach a little bit within that. And then the muscle endurance ones are the most obvious ones ever. And those are ones where you put more eggs in the basket of a specific movement more often than not, where you're like, yep, if I do those handstand push-ups in two sets instead of four, I'm gonna have some trouble, but I'm gonna overreach so that then in competition, maybe I can go three and sort of have that there. One caveat that I'll throw in with the muscle endurance pieces if you don't have muscle endurance, I know a person that doesn't have uh muscle endurance. Yeah, you just kind of deal with, kind of deal with it as you go because it's not actually specifically related to a movement. It's aerobic dysfunction. Uh, and that's kind of worked on in in different areas. So maybe we would be pacing if you're a power athlete a little bit more when it comes to that stuff. One beautiful thing here is that we have intervals and we can learn so much from intervals. We can really like the athlete IQ exercise is ongoing the whole time, which is a beautiful thing. So even if you're ignoring the fact that you should be doing it before you start or asking a coach to help you do it before you start, you see your time, right? Like I love doing like like having either a Garmin or an Apple Watch or a phone nearby to do lap timing. That can be so incredibly helpful. Or you're doing the AMRAP and you're just logging your score down. And as you're working your way through it again, it's like, was that the right pace? Am I gonna be able to do that again? Am I gonna be able to go a little bit harder there? Guessing and checking and your split times is what happens on the other side of the athlete IQ exercise that we did. So you guessed how long is this workout gonna take me? How many times am I gonna have to break it up? Like, how am I gonna do in this workout, both from a strategic standpoint and a score standpoint? You gotta write that down on a piece of paper and then, you know, put a slash next to it and write what actually happened next to it. That's where the money is really made.

SPEAKER_05: 52:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 52:07

And so much of this conversation comes from observing people who excelled in the sport while we were still trying to figure out what the sport was. And they were doing these exercises because they were obsessed and it was just what they did and how they learn. So it's like you're just eavesdropping on five games athletes sitting there. I went six, five, four. I went unbroken. Oh, I did two sets. I did this. Yeah, but you transitioned really slow here. What were you holding on the bike on that? Like, how did you get off the bike so quick? How did you feel when you did that? Like, oh, you just went right over and picked the barbell up. How'd you do that? Was it a small set just to like, I can get this started? Like these conversations were so fascinating to hear because then there again, a real way to for athletes to improve on like, I think I can do this and then I did this. And there was a lot of like meathead behavior of like, I'm holding 1500 calories. And then it's like, but that's why you lost. Like, was it fun to be in front? Like, was it cool? Maybe it was that kind of thing. So that's where a lot of that conversation came from. And then the leveling up version of it is basically just re-referencing the um, like the lap timer. Like what were your splits? You know, a lot of people have videos. You can just quick zoom through the video and mark on the video where you were at. Like there's a bunch of different ways to do this. Again, I like to use the watch because I like to know in real time. Other people probably don't want to be dicking around with a wearable, um, you know, while they're they're mid-workout and at, you know, 190 beats per minute or something like that. But like your splits in these workouts give you so much information. Yeah. Like you ended up at this spot, but like, how much did you leave on the table by being a minute faster per round at the beginning versus the end?

SPEAKER_04: 53:55

Yeah. I like to think about it in like for myself, if I see it's like um, say five rounds for time, and my guess is that a round is gonna take me around three minutes. Well, if I end up with my score being instead of 15 minutes or under 15 minutes and I'm at 17 or something, okay, well, where did I go wrong? What where like what was my breakdown point? Um, what what did go well, what didn't? It's like journaling all these notes and the the feedback you give yourself, you know, you take that into, oh, here's another five-round workout. Okay, maybe it's not a three minute per round kind of workout. It's maybe a two-minute. Can I stick to a pace that I'm I'm trying to hold or or you know, anything like that. Like that guess and check really it is very valuable. It doesn't always have to be like, you know, it's not a perfect equation. You know, we're we're humans, we have good days, bad days too.

SPEAKER_03: 54:44

I think one of my favorite dude, try doing an athlete IQ exercise at Rogue when it's like there's 30 seconds of work and it takes two hours. Like the the back squat workout. It's like one of the the back squat dumbbells, like just so simple on paper. And like even the best of the best there were not near what you would expect a workout like that to be for sure.

SPEAKER_04: 55:08

Yeah, it was pretty, pretty rough. I think um, you know, I'll use spiders on Mars as an example. One of the kind of coolest things to see as far as like when you talk about starting slower, is think about like for some of my athletes, I'll use this as an example, but time to complete 75 calories. If you hold I I didn't do the conversions here, if you hold a 158 split, it's five minutes and 15 seconds. If you hold a 157 split, it's five minutes and six seconds. So that's a nine second difference by just taking your split time down one second. And for some people, that extra effort to get those nine seconds can really cost them because they might especially when you go from a movement that is just repetitive to like, hi, hello, wall ball. Right, exactly. So I think it'll be really interesting to see how people approach that one, knowing that like, you know, we're really in open style prep, quarterfinal style prep. These are movements that you are going to see pop up. And now you really get to kind of figure out like, oh, you mean if I held a pace that was 50 calor slower, I could have moved faster on the wall balls or the double unders. I could have transitioned faster and actually save myself time. Uh yeah, I'm I'm interested to see because I, you know, I put a lot of notes in there on that workout specifically with my athletes. So I'll be excited to kind of hear their feedback, but also from other athletes and Telegram now, kind of after listening to this and see how they approach it, if they take a different approach or not.

SPEAKER_03: 56:46

Yeah, for sure. Okay. One reason why intensity should drop in training versus testing and why your times will be slower and why it's a good thing is technique. You are spending the majority of your time doing a movement in dynamic, you know, environments while training. And if you move like shit in the name of going a little bit faster, you will move like shit under super high intensity in competition. And I can tell you right now, every time we go to a major competition and the calendar rolls over, there's one, two, three, four, five less people at the bottom of the leaderboard that are moving like shit. And oftentimes they're, you know, the aerobic type athlete that can just kind of hang in it and, you know, stay at that like pretty high intensity the whole time. They pace pretty well. But if they moved well, they'd be great. So the way that you move in training is so incredibly important. And taking the extra time to say, I could do this in two sets with, you know, pretty good intensity and not super long breaks. But in training, I'm gonna do it in three or four sets and I'm gonna move incredibly well makes it so that again, we want this done. Really love this in intervals because we know the intensity is gonna be really high. And then I just want to see beautiful movement from a person because then we know when shit hits the fan and you lock eyes with that athlete during a workout where they're in a moment where muscle endurance is becoming a problem, and it's like that simple cue that's like you're not using your hips, you're not getting your pinky knuckle over the bar, you're not raising, you're not leaning back, Paige, and your rope climb, something like that. You know that despite what my brain is telling me, I don't need to pull with my arms. I've done this a trillion times in training. I can lean back, which makes it easier for me to get my knees up and do this rope climb and less pulls, that kind of thing. So technique in training is so incredibly important. I cannot stress that enough. Does it need to be perfect? Are we trying to be gymnasts and Olympic weightlifters and all that? No. There's so much nuance within CrossFit and the sport of CrossFit when it comes to the way certain things are done. And there's different techniques that work, something that I've finally come around to. It only took me like 10 years to come around to. There used to be a way to do a movement, and I would tell you exactly how it was how it should be done. And I yeah, that to me is one of the things that like is the barrier to entry to intensity on just a random Wednesday, is you better be moving really damn well if you feel good enough to like stomp the gas pedal and trend towards a nine or 10 RP.

SPEAKER_04: 59:26

Yeah. And I think uh, you know, if you go in and you read a workout, and and you know, for me it is the rope climb. Like I know I have a tendency to break down on that movement, you know, when the intensity is there. So in training, it's I keep it, I write it on my board above my workout of like lean back, like I keep that cue somewhere where I can constantly see it because I know that there's something specific that I can work on to move the needle. You know, for someone that might be like a chest of bar pull up or a handstand push up, like there are, you know, if you know those cues that work for you and you need to be Reminded of them, write it down somewhere, keep it around you during the workout so that you get that feedback if you, if you, if your eyes lock on it. And it just gives you that simple reminder of like, okay, if I'm not doing that thing, I need to bring myself down a little bit so that I can get back to doing it, so that I can make that thing become muscle memory for myself.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:19

One of the reasons I wanted to do this episode is because the like the common theme when people talk about this, training versus testing, is something you could see from a random coach on Instagram once a month at least. And it's often to me too much about intensity only. And to me, it's more about gaming something versus figuring out how to improve. Because I don't love this conversation about like, I honestly think it's bullshit. I think it's, I think it's a similar thing where like someone giving nutrition advice just tells you to go keto because it's like the latest thing. So like if it's like, hey, guess what? We have a program and you don't even really need to go that hard and you'll get way better. And then they show videos of their athletes and there's like spit flying out of their face. And it's like, dude, I don't think I've ever drooled like that doing a dumbbell snatch in my life. Like, what is happening? That's RPE 80. Like, I don't I don't even understand what that is, but shouldn't go very hard in training. And it's like, that bothers me because if you aren't like, and honestly, the same coaches will do two separate videos where they say intensity is king and you're training too hard. And I'm like, What do you believe?

SPEAKER_05: 1:01:32

Help me out here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:01:33

Help me out here. So understanding that there is a sport version where, like, listen, I could have like the softest strategy, but like maybe it's just a really unique workout, and I figured out how to like, because that does happen. You'll see something like that happen at the games where someone's dogging one thing and then crushing another thing, and it's like they figured it out. Good for them. Walk your shuttle runs. Yeah, like that's you are figuring something out, but if you walk your shuttle r well, first of all, don't walk your don't do it. Listen, unless unless you're like trying to jump from 3000th to 2000th, like that, that is a thing. But like I often am only in the mindset of like semifinals games, like that kind of thing. But if you're doing that kind of thing in training, the adaptation's not going to take place. So like adaptation versus best score is how I'm trying to how I'm trying to frame this. And the cool thing is you learn how to do best score while you're making adaptations, if you're taking notes, which is great. All right, let's talk a little bit about competing. So again, testing and retesting, we, you know, if you're at the affiliate level, it's your friends, it's your CrossFit Total, it's your open workouts that are retested. You know, maybe there's a larger gap. If you're following a program that has phases and cycles, you're often retesting workouts within a you know six to 12 week period, which is really cool. Competing is competing. You're actually at a competition or you're doing, you know, an online qualifier, that sort of thing. Comp prep, totally different topic, totally different episode. But we should be coming back down the mountain and we should be doing less volume with higher intensity, because that is what most competitions ask for. Why do you need to go really hard once a day during test week? Because you're about to do the open. It's going really hard once a week, right? So getting that part figured out, making sure you're tapering. Like if you aren't, if you haven't figured out what makes the most sense for you between kind of the last time that you went really hard and then going hard again. And do I like a primer day? Do I not like a primer day? Those things are incredibly important and you need buy-in from the coach and the athlete. Like that side of things is incredibly important. Are you, and this goes back to I think the variables and expectations conversation, have you dialed in your habits as the volume has started to come back down to then put them to use, to serious use during competing? Because you see a lot of athletes who kind of wing it during training, and then they've got like 57 mobility devices in their duffel bag, and they got the, you know, the the$10,000 space boots to push the, you know, the lymphatic and they're, you know, they don't warm up and cool down, so they don't really know what intensity should be there. And they've got like gels and you know, energy cube. They just it's it's a lot of stuff which all has its place somewhere, but like it's like when the person, the the most obvious one is when the person completely changes their diet and they wonder why something's off. And it's like your body doesn't know what the hell's going on. So having those habits figured out throughout a comp prep, I think is incredibly important because you find what actually works for you.

SPEAKER_05: 1:04:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:50

You're not just like, this person, I thought that's what they did, but they're actually just selling sodium tablets on Instagram like for 80 bucks a pop, like that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:00

Yeah. I think, you know, as the taper comes in, you're reducing that volume. You're still keeping your intent within your training, right? Like you're still focusing on like I'm getting ready to compete. That mindset still has to be there. And it's a time to, you know, sharpen your skills. Don't introduce new things that, you know, you're not sure if they're gonna work or not. It's not really the time, but sharpening the skills of or your habits, you know, making sure that sleep is nine hours if you can get that, um, you know, dialing in that nutrition, making sure that you're being proactive in how you prep for your nutrition stuff. You know, if you know you have a, you know, you're working on, you know, whatever day and you're not gonna have time to go home and make lunch, like you still have to this is the time to like really dial in those things. And again, you'll see in the competition is where you express that fitness, where you express those habits even. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:56

Athlete IQ and coaching, you become hopefully some form of like hive mind together. I can tell you right now that when you start working with someone who just wants to be told what to do and doesn't have any say in it, they don't believe in it and you see more audibles out on the competition floor than you should. What's really cool is when you see someone stick to their plan and then pass the field. That's my that's like my favorite.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:24

Bread and butter.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:25

Because it's so hard, like the the like social pressure of like maybe we should be running at this pace. And sometimes, oops, at the end, I should have been running at that pace. But like knowing what you know as an athlete and having you're in a heightened state, so you might overshoot or undershoot for different reasons. You might overshoot because of ego, you might undershoot because you're scared of blowing up and you need kind of that nudge that's like, nah, like this is this is what this is gonna look like out there. So if we don't at least try, then you know, pacing too much in a competition setting is a is a definitely a tough thing to watch. Like, you know, the run my own race conversation that I always chuckle at. It's like it's not your race. It's not, it's literally a race.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:15

Like there is a race happening. And if you run your own and it's the wrong one, then this isn't gonna go all that well. But like the athlete, you know, you you you do have some like Cody comes to mind where he was very much like, I need a friend and like a sounding board and whatever, but like I know what I'm doing out there.

SPEAKER_05: 1:07:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:39

Like that kind of thing. And then again, you have people that are like, I don't know what the I don't know what to do. What am I supposed to do out there? And it's like, you 21, 15, 9 all day, every day. How do you not know what to do out? Like, how is this happening? That sort of thing. So again, the bringing the athlete IQ with you, developing it all year long, you are doing a form of training that will serve your competing in such a large way because you and the coach can come up with a strategy together that you both believe in, right? And sometimes there's a give and take there.

SPEAKER_05: 1:08:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:14

There's like a, I think you got to break this up this way, and it's like, dude, that's not happening. Like, I don't know where you came up with that, but that's not happening, right? Like that sort of thing. So those two things going together really well takes a lot of work. The coach has got to know the athlete, the athlete's got to know the coach, but you're working on the athlete's working on the athlete IQ, the coach is helping develop it, coaches actually reading the notes and the splits and all this stuff and kind of have their own, you know, this is their athlete IQ, this is what applies to them. But those two things coming together at a competition will do more for your execution than almost anything else, just in terms of like, we've already done all of the work, so how can we actually put it on display?

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:55

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you and I, you every time we have a workout and you're like, okay, so how do you think you should approach this? It's like you always let me give my idea first, and you always have your idea, and then sometimes you'll tell me straight up that like I don't think that's a good idea at all, just based on, you know, you've seen me training for 10 years now. And yep. Or it's like you'll see similarities in my strategy and your strategy and figure out a way to blend them together, which usually comes out with a much better result. So having that person, like you said, a sounding board or a coach, someone to openly collaborate with you and not just be like, no, that idea is real dumb, just don't do it. Like that's not helpful either. So I I have a lot of fun with like, you know, McKenna, who's more on the side of like lacks the confidence yet to like take that risk or to be like, no, I can't, I can't do sets of 10 on thrusters or whatever it is. Like, it's like, no, you can just try. And it's like, if you can go with that approach, but like again, having that belief from somebody else is really powerful in like just kind of pushing you in that direction of like, okay, so what if? Like, you know, again, strategy and strategy can change on the fly in a competition. And that's, you know, part of gamifying it. Um, you know, that's another component of it that, you know, we can talk about a little bit. But yeah, just having somebody to bounce off of and also being able to sometimes lock eyes with them when you're out on the competition floor and all of a sudden it's not going the way that you wanted it to.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:32

You want the earpiece so bad.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:35

Yeah, like, you know, it's sometimes you need to have that eye contact to help you settle down or calm any anxiety, or sometimes they give you a tactile cue of like, you know, they show you something and it's like, great, let me try that strategy. Just being open and willing on the floor like that too can really, really go a long way.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:55

Um I got no shame too. If I'm on the wrong side of the competition floor and I think I got time to get to the other side, I'm fucking going, dude. I'll run, I will run around that place and be like, okay, where, where is this spot where because also there are places where you could go that would be too front and center and too kind of in your face that I don't like either. But like again, like like one of the things that's coming to mind is is the rogue competition. And there were different places that I could be, but if I can be in a place where I'm almost alone and you have a chunk of time to then think about what I said, like I will place my try to place myself there as opposed to you're on the rope and feeling the like blood pumping through your forearms and your hip flexors on fire, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:42

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, the nice thing about doing the open or quarterfinals in your gym is like you can tell somebody, hey, stand on this side of the room and when I need you, I'm gonna look at you, right? Or like I have this one cue for this movement, and I just want you to say it out loud to remind me. So I hear it. I might not look at you, but I hear you saying it, and I'm gonna remind myself to use that cue for whatever specific movement it is, you know. So yeah, just having, you know, that person is there to help you be accountable and to help you either, you know, get the best possible score if you're in a competition, or, you know, help you just stay true to your training.

unknown: 1:12:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:20

Yeah, it makes me want to rant, honestly. We've got some good pit stains going for anyone on YouTube here. It makes me want to rant and it's not even that relevant, but just the way that certain coaches speak to certain athletes. And because the athlete does well, they attribute their success to them when the leap from ninth to second is so huge and requires so much work that it's like you see it regularly and it's it's just a bummer. So coaches and athletes out there think about the way think about the way that other people speak to you, think about the way that you speak to each other, because sometimes you have a level of success and you have that kind of beginner gains thing, and then you wonder why there isn't a way to level up from there. And part of it is those interpersonal relationships. That's the end of my rant. RPE and intensity in competition is, man, that could be an episode. That is such a fascinating thing because adrenaline and the music and the crowd and all of that does different things to different people, the duration of the workout, the athlete IQ exercise going wrong and the six-minute workouts actually 11 minutes. There's there's a lot to this. And what has what you have to learn how to do, and you can practice this in testing and training and competing, is taking a level of intensity and spreading it out. It's so hard to spread like when you just so much is on the line and you got to go hard for 20 minutes. It is so hard to know where that adrenaline goes. And the thing is, is it just goes to like a little bit faster for the whole 20 minutes? But that is that's I mean, you should you should speak to it. You have the actual experience with it. What is it like to be in those moments where you're in that heightened state and the adrenaline is pumping, but it's like same speed, increased RPE as you go. Well, how do you manage that? How do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:18

I mean, I've always I think honestly, from training with somebody like Kenzie, who is, you know, we call her the pacing queen of like she looks calm all the time, but like she's moving. She's not, she's never calm. She she's perfect about that. She looks calm all the time when she's competing. And if you guys don't know, she's really, really fit. You know, even you know, having a child and coming back to compete at the games, like it's very, very rare occasion for somebody, you know, for a woman to do that. But like I think training, honestly, with her and with China, who again, you know, they are they are something. They are very uh love to they would love to complain outside of training, but three, two, one, go and Metcon starts, like they are very composed and they just get after it. And like there's I don't know if it's just the repetitions and being able to kind of shadow that, that I was able to kind of develop that type of mindset of like, I know I have to go harder no matter what. It's a competition. I know I'm gonna have to move harder than I did in training, and I have to just stay calm through that. So, like, you know, if even at the uh, for example, the lunge dumbbell, the dumbbell lunge in the row, right? Like you, I had to hold a pace that was probably 20 seconds faster on that 500 meter split, right? Like I had to go much faster, 10 seconds faster, whatever it was, which was a very high output effort. And like, okay, I know I have to go faster, but I have to trust my training as well. I know I could hang on to those dumbbells to take it to the finish line. So there is a bit of like, you have to trust yourself. You have to know that, like, okay, if I'm gonna tell you instead of holding a 158, I want you to hold a 155, like that's gonna be hard, but you can do it. Um, your first reaction can't be oh shit. Like if you have that like moment where it all of a sudden just ups your anxiety or ups your, you know, that heightened state, that's when that type of training or or you know, that approach can go really, really south. Um, but again, like you said, it's gotta be trained and and you have to learn how to be calm in the chaos, if it's chaos, like in your head. So um yeah, that's kind of where I think my experience is.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:40

The final note that I have here just says the elephant in the room. And the only thing underneath that is a bullet point that says pacing. Man, some of you guys. And maybe I'm projecting right now. I'm not the greatest pacer. I have two speeds, real fast and real slow. So that that kind of medium, I'm working on it, okay? Again, my desk is here and there's an Echo bike right there, and I'm on that thing a lot. But you have to know that the discrepancy between your splits and a workout has the most leeway in a really short, short workout and almost no leeway in a really long workout. And you got to figure those things out, and you have to be able to go in and do workouts where, again, it is a 20-minute AMRAP and you're gonna get 10 rounds, and your splits are going to be almost identical. And it's gonna be, I don't think easy is the right word. I don't know what you would attach to like what does the first 10 minutes of the workout feel like? It's like slightly uncomfortable, but you have enough athlete IQ to know that like we get like 10 to 12 and a half is okay. We're at seven, and then 12 and a half to 15, we're at eight, and then we're getting into that territory, like where you start to become a little like hypoxic and like you might see some stars on the machine a little bit, but you have not blown it, like coming back from underpacing, your body's like, no, like why did you do this to me? Adjusting over pacing is possible.

SPEAKER_05: 1:18:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:10

And if you're in a competition setting, obviously that it can be too late in those moments. But like, again, understanding your own personal energy systems is important and being able to run into a brick wall is important. But if we don't learn how to pace these workouts and understand how long certain things take and what it feels like to back off a little bit at the beginning of like a medium or a longer workout, you're gonna have the metabolic machinery to do some real damage and you'll never get to showcase it. Like I've I worked with a lot of athletes that were like that. And there's just kind of a level of ego where when we get to this point, like I'm the one going out onto the competition floor, you're not coach, like watch this, and then they crash and burn. Yeah. And it just sucks because you're like, damn, that person worked so hard to get here. We got all the machine paces where we wanted, we cleaned up those muscle ups, you know, and the handstand walking and the whatever. Like it's just frustrating from the coach's perspective to watch. And it's a lot easier said than done. And I'm aware of that. But just if anything comes from this episode, understanding pacing, figuring out that whole world and applying, again, the intensity and the effort, all that back into a good strategy is gonna make all the difference in the world in training, in testing, and competing, the whole deal.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19:29

Yeah. Um my final notes, I'll kind of, you know, follow up on that. It's, you know, if you haven't done an athlete IQ worksheet like that before, or you know, like like looked at all of your reps and times and how long something will take. Number one, do that. But number two, when you get to a workout where you have a strategy and it you're like, I want to start slower, be disciplined enough to do that because it's very easy to be like, wow, I feel so good. Right now. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do round one a little bit faster than I said I would. Like be disciplined because again, especially in those longer workouts, like we're looking for that heart rate to gradually increase throughout that 20 minutes, right? So it's it's a really important learning tool to have if you can stay disciplined enough.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:18

And I've been doing this for again, I don't know, 15 plus years. And we joked, I think it was in the last episode, maybe it was in a meeting. I did the the P3 session where I got basically like 30 calories in 30 seconds the first round, which is a bit of a mistake. But then I did P2 this week, 16, 16, 17, 21.

SPEAKER_04: 1:20:40

Yikes. So like crazy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:42

So like I just and it was annoying. I didn't I didn't want to be in the 800 to 900 range and wattage in the first round because I was like, does this even count as anything? Like, what am I doing right now? And then I did the second one. I was like, oh, that kind of sucked. And then kind of worked myself into that place. So you will make mistakes, especially in both ends of the spectrum, really short and really long. And all we're asking, and all you should ask for from yourself is that when you get presented with the opportunity again, which you will, like figure that out. And that's why athlete IQ comes into play so much with these progressions that we do and why they work is because I'm putting you through every stimulus, every time domain. We're adding other movements, we're keeping it just as a couplet, that sort of thing. And the trick is in are you able to spot those same things when you're not in a progression? It's just another, it's just another workout. It's a non-mandatory kind of weakness piece. Can you bring the same notes to that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:43

Yeah. I was gonna say, take notes. Take a lot of notes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:46

Well, I didn't mean to do my final thoughts, but when I get ranty, sometimes they just come out of me. So I think I already did. Yep, let it flow. Yeah. Cool. Did we do it?

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:55

We did.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:56

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Misfit podcast. And thank you for doing any of the next four things to support the show. Misfit Training Camp, Boulder, Colorado, CrossFit Roots, January 30th, February 1st. Get signed up at the link in bio. Follow one of our programs, individual programs on Fitter or Strivey. MisfitAffiliate Programming is on teammisfit.com. You can get a two-week free trial with one of our programming partners there. SharpenTheaxco.com for your Misfit Gear and GorillaMind.com forward slash Misfit for the best supplements in the game. Thank you to everyone who keeps doing those things and supporting us. We appreciate it. See you next week.

unknown: 1:22:38

Misfits.